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Thread started 05/11/20 7:26am

maplenpg

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Thanks Boris - UK death toll about to rocket

Sooooo......I've avoided making a UK thread. I guess I always thought that however bad Boris was, he wasn't as bad as Trump. But I am wrong. And he has just unleashed a beast.

For those not in the UK, last night BJ was supposed to announce the latest lockdown measures. Many expected that his speech would say that garden centres were to open, and that unlimited outdoor exercise was allowed. But no, in probably the worst speech ever to be made in UK history, Boris left us completely baffled as to what the hell he said (check out Matt Lucas' summary here), but what he said loud and clear at gone 7pm last night was that the workers had to go back to work, the next morning. Hence these were the scenes for the London tube this morning, there are many, many pictures like it. Few masks, no social distancing, just workers going back to make money for the rich, who undoubtedly will be staying at home. As one commuter said, "It's just pure luck which of us get it". So thanks Boris. Thanks for giving a fucked up speech. Thanks for sending the country back to square one. Thanks for the murder of the working class. Thanks for the worst death toll in Europe. Let's hope the economy thrives.


EXu3WmcWkAEvQG5?format=jpg&name=small

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Reply #1 posted 05/11/20 7:29am

maplenpg

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Reply #2 posted 05/11/20 8:12am

2elijah

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Definitely seems many there are not taking the virus seriously, because they’re not wearing masks or social distancing.
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Reply #3 posted 05/11/20 8:14am

Lianachan

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Well on the way to the virus killing more UK civilians than the second world war did. Most of these could have been avoided by the UK government taking action earlier. For a couple of months, they sat and did fuck all but watch the virus march towards them, and they've been hoplessly ineffective since.

At least here in Scotland we have a more sensible government that actually cares about people, and is keeping more or less all lockdown restrictions in place for now.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge"" ~ Isaac Asimov
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Reply #4 posted 05/11/20 8:16am

Lianachan

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maplenpg said:

Thanks for the worst death toll in Europe.

Actually the second worst in the world, unless you express it as the number of deaths per million of population - in which case it is the worst in the world.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge"" ~ Isaac Asimov
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Reply #5 posted 05/11/20 8:19am

maplenpg

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Lianachan said:

Well on the way to the virus killing more UK civilians than the second world war did. Most of these could have been avoided by the UK government taking action earlier. For a couple of months, they sat and did fuck all but watch the virus march towards them, and they've been hoplessly ineffective since.

At least here in Scotland we have a more sensible government that actually cares about people, and is keeping more or less all lockdown restrictions in place for now.

I agree 100%. The public were crying out for lockdown by the time it came. Nicola Sturgeon was on many British TV channels this morning. She speaks clearly, and concisely, and seems to have saving lives at the heart of what she is doing. You are the lucky ones.

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Reply #6 posted 05/11/20 8:21am

maplenpg

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Lianachan said:

maplenpg said:

Thanks for the worst death toll in Europe.

Actually the second worst in the world, unless you express it as the number of deaths per million of population - in which case it is the worst in the world.

Madness. Especially when you look at countries such as Japan, who have a massive population crowded together.

PS. Are we really now the worst in the world per million? Cripes. I thought Belgium still had that unfortunate crown x

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Reply #7 posted 05/11/20 8:23am

maplenpg

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2elijah said:

Definitely seems many there are not taking the virus seriously, because they’re not wearing masks or social distancing.

To be fair, they can't social distance on the tube without authorities stepping in, there's just too many people trying to travel at once. It needs regulation. And we've been repeatedly told face coverings make no difference, so few people wear them. Actually, in the last hour or so, the PM has said that people can choose to wear face coverings in confined spaces if they want, but it won't be enforced.

It goes against the whole of the rest of the world sad

[Edited 5/11/20 8:24am]

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Reply #8 posted 05/11/20 8:26am

maplenpg

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I should add, though people are being encouraged to go to work, to risk their lives on the tube, to put money into the economy by going into the workplace/s, they are still not allowed to go into the home of anyone they don't live with, even their parents.

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Reply #9 posted 05/11/20 8:26am

poppys

maplenpg said:

Sooooo......I've avoided making a UK thread. I guess I always thought that however bad Boris was, he wasn't as bad as Trump. But I am wrong. And he has just unleashed a beast.

For those not in the UK, last night BJ was supposed to announce the latest lockdown measures. Many expected that his speech would say that garden centres were to open, and that unlimited outdoor exercise was allowed. But no, in probably the worst speech ever to be made in UK history, Boris left us completely baffled as to what the hell he said (check out Matt Lucas' summary here), but what he said loud and clear at gone 7pm last night was that the workers had to go back to work, the next morning. Hence these were the scenes for the London tube this morning, there are many, many pictures like it. Few masks, no social distancing, just workers going back to make money for the rich, who undoubtedly will be staying at home. As one commuter said, "It's just pure luck which of us get it". So thanks Boris. Thanks for giving a fucked up speech. Thanks for sending the country back to square one. Thanks for the murder of the working class. Thanks for the worst death toll in Europe. Let's hope the economy thrives.


EXu3WmcWkAEvQG5?format=jpg&name=small


Oh God, just seeing that gives me anxiety for all those people! I have noticed how some people, even people without money, keep talking about who's hiring even though they have NO intention of applying themselves.

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Reply #10 posted 05/11/20 8:28am

poppys

maplenpg said:

I should add, though people are being encouraged to go to work, to risk their lives on the tube, to put money into the economy by going into the workplace/s, they are still not allowed to go into the home of anyone they don't live with, even their parents.

wacky

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Reply #11 posted 05/11/20 9:22am

benni

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And this is exactly what Trump wants to do America. Maple (and all UK orgers) stay safe. It looks like it's about to get really bad in your country again, so just stay safe.

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Reply #12 posted 05/11/20 10:45am

v10letblues

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Well we don't know what will happen.This is all uncharted territory. I'll give any country or state the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing. We will see.

Hopefully things work out well. We know we can't go on with everything closed. That is unsustainable.

If this virus was worse than it is it would be a different story, but we need to see what happens when places start reopening and see and hope things turn out well.

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Reply #13 posted 05/11/20 11:13am

Lianachan

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We do know what will happen. Thousands more will die. More avoidable deaths. There are numerous examples of a second wave of the virus in many countries who eased lockdown too soon. Plus many historical examples of course, the second wave of the Spanish Flu was exponentially worse than the first wave. Open up then see what happens is, quite literally, a murderous approach.
[Edited 5/11/20 11:15am]
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Reply #14 posted 05/11/20 11:21am

v10letblues

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Lianachan said:

We do know what will happen. Thousands more will die. More avoidable deaths. There are numerous examples of a second wave of the virus in many countries who eased lockdown too soon. Plus many historical examples of course, the second wave of the Spanish Flu was exponentially worse than the first wave. Open up then see what happens is, quite literally, a murderous approach. [Edited 5/11/20 11:15am]

You may be right. But i tend to think that if we continue to wear masks and practice proper hygiene we can reopen a good deal of the economy and get people back to work. I am not sure how the UK is dealing with preventive measures in reopening.

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Reply #15 posted 05/11/20 12:57pm

poppys

v10letblues said:

Lianachan said:

We do know what will happen. Thousands more will die. More avoidable deaths. There are numerous examples of a second wave of the virus in many countries who eased lockdown too soon. Plus many historical examples of course, the second wave of the Spanish Flu was exponentially worse than the first wave. Open up then see what happens is, quite literally, a murderous approach. [Edited 5/11/20 11:15am]

You may be right. But i tend to think that if we continue to wear masks and practice proper hygiene we can reopen a good deal of the economy and get people back to work. I am not sure how the UK is dealing with preventive measures in reopening.


Does widespread testing in the US have anything to do with what you tend to think should happen?

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Reply #16 posted 05/11/20 1:18pm

2elijah

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maplenpg said:



2elijah said:


Definitely seems many there are not taking the virus seriously, because they’re not wearing masks or social distancing.

To be fair, they can't social distance on the tube without authorities stepping in, there's just too many people trying to travel at once. It needs regulation. And we've been repeatedly told face coverings make no difference, so few people wear them. Actually, in the last hour or so, the PM has said that people can choose to wear face coverings in confined spaces if they want, but it won't be enforced.

It goes against the whole of the rest of the world sad

[Edited 5/11/20 8:24am]


You’re right. I didn’t realize that was the part of your transportation system, in that pic with that large crowd. I don’t see how they could regulate it without issues, with many having different hours to get to work, and those leaving earlier to get a spot on the train. It reminds of grand central station/penn station. I can’t even imagine how they are going to regulate our bus and train system here, during our gradual reopening in New York and New Jersey.
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Reply #17 posted 05/11/20 6:03pm

slyjackson

A disaster in the makin, many brits will die soon, btw the maks are useless, the virus could get into your system via your eyes.

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Reply #18 posted 05/11/20 6:20pm

poppys

slyjackson said:

A disaster in the makin, many brits will die soon, btw the maks are useless, the virus could get into your system via your eyes.

The masks are not useless. They do help protect everyone's nose, mouth and eyes from getting droplets in them.

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Reply #19 posted 05/11/20 11:33pm

maplenpg

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v10letblues said:

Lianachan said:

We do know what will happen. Thousands more will die. More avoidable deaths. There are numerous examples of a second wave of the virus in many countries who eased lockdown too soon. Plus many historical examples of course, the second wave of the Spanish Flu was exponentially worse than the first wave. Open up then see what happens is, quite literally, a murderous approach. [Edited 5/11/20 11:15am]

You may be right. But i tend to think that if we continue to wear masks and practice proper hygiene we can reopen a good deal of the economy and get people back to work. I am not sure how the UK is dealing with preventive measures in reopening.

Mask wearing is not compulsary over here. Just yesterday, after the scenes on the tube, they started saying people might want to start wearing them in crowded places. But they are not going to enforce it, and TV channels had experts explaining why it's bad to wear a mask (as well as experts saying it's a good thing). BJ said we should 'use our common sense with regards wearing or not wearing masks' - which is meaningless. When you have experts on both sides of the coin arguing over their effectiveness, then how is the common minion supposed to know who to listen to?

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Reply #20 posted 05/11/20 11:35pm

maplenpg

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2elijah said:

maplenpg said:

To be fair, they can't social distance on the tube without authorities stepping in, there's just too many people trying to travel at once. It needs regulation. And we've been repeatedly told face coverings make no difference, so few people wear them. Actually, in the last hour or so, the PM has said that people can choose to wear face coverings in confined spaces if they want, but it won't be enforced.

It goes against the whole of the rest of the world sad

[Edited 5/11/20 8:24am]

You’re right. I didn’t realize that was the part of your transportation system, in that pic with that large crowd. I don’t see how they could regulate it without issues, with many having different hours to get to work, and those leaving earlier to get a spot on the train. It reminds of grand central station/penn station. I can’t even imagine how they are going to regulate our bus and train system here, during our gradual reopening in New York and New Jersey.

They can't - that's the problem. Our government is investing huge amounts of money encouraging people to walk or cycle instead of using public transport. Bearing in mind the average UK commute is 9 miles.

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Reply #21 posted 05/11/20 11:36pm

maplenpg

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poppys said:

v10letblues said:

You may be right. But i tend to think that if we continue to wear masks and practice proper hygiene we can reopen a good deal of the economy and get people back to work. I am not sure how the UK is dealing with preventive measures in reopening.


Does widespread testing in the US have anything to do with what you tend to think should happen?

We don't even have widespread testing over here yet Poppy. So if Violet is basing her answer on testing, then it doesn't work over the pond.

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Reply #22 posted 05/12/20 12:38am

v10letblues

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maplenpg said:

v10letblues said:

You may be right. But i tend to think that if we continue to wear masks and practice proper hygiene we can reopen a good deal of the economy and get people back to work. I am not sure how the UK is dealing with preventive measures in reopening.

Mask wearing is not compulsary over here. Just yesterday, after the scenes on the tube, they started saying people might want to start wearing them in crowded places. But they are not going to enforce it, and TV channels had experts explaining why it's bad to wear a mask (as well as experts saying it's a good thing). BJ said we should 'use our common sense with regards wearing or not wearing masks' - which is meaningless. When you have experts on both sides of the coin arguing over their effectiveness, then how is the common minion supposed to know who to listen to?

Yes, and I personally do not want to go into absolutisms becasue this is uncharted territory. I defer to the experts of course and the believe we should err on the side of caution, but i also believe we should see both ends of opinions play out to whatever common sense they believe is appropriate. I don't have the expertise on this subject as the folks calling the shots in the UK or Switzerland. But we do know that doing nothing and letting economies crash is just not viable, but also imperative that we d not allow to happen. We taking shots in the dark to prevent the worst on many different fronts.
.
I have also said from the beginning that some of what we believed was sound might later be proven wrong and vice versa, but we wont know until the dust settles one day, one way or the other. I just have to believe that people are doing their best with the best of intentions.

.

We will possibly come to know what was the best course of action at this moment in the end, but right now, no one really does.

[Edited 5/12/20 0:41am]

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Reply #23 posted 05/12/20 5:54am

DiminutiveRock
er

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v10letblues said:

maplenpg said:

Mask wearing is not compulsary over here. Just yesterday, after the scenes on the tube, they started saying people might want to start wearing them in crowded places. But they are not going to enforce it, and TV channels had experts explaining why it's bad to wear a mask (as well as experts saying it's a good thing). BJ said we should 'use our common sense with regards wearing or not wearing masks' - which is meaningless. When you have experts on both sides of the coin arguing over their effectiveness, then how is the common minion supposed to know who to listen to?

Yes, and I personally do not want to go into absolutisms becasue this is uncharted territory. I defer to the experts of course and the believe we should err on the side of caution, but i also believe we should see both ends of opinions play out to whatever common sense they believe is appropriate. I don't have the expertise on this subject as the folks calling the shots in the UK or Switzerland. But we do know that doing nothing and letting economies crash is just not viable, but also imperative that we d not allow to happen. We taking shots in the dark to prevent the worst on many different fronts.
.
I have also said from the beginning that some of what we believed was sound might later be proven wrong and vice versa, but we wont know until the dust settles one day, one way or the other. I just have to believe that people are doing their best with the best of intentions.

.

We will possibly come to know what was the best course of action at this moment in the end, but right now, no one really does.

[Edited 5/12/20 0:41am]



Well, let's look at what we do know: Covid-19 is a highly infectious pathogen that a person can have without showing any symptoms at all and can easily spread it. We know that while it can kill the most vulnerable among us, it is not limited to age. We know the economy is suffering as a consequence of this virus. We know that staying home, social distancing and wearng masks is keeping the virus from spreading and relieving the pressure on our health care systems.

This is uncharted territory for sure, but all of the above has to be taken not consideration unless governments simply want this to be "survival of the fittest" scenario. I guess they don't care if your mother with asthma or your cousin with diabetes or your child with a heart condition or your elederly grandparent ALL of whom can manage their conditions and live relatively normal lives with their conditions.... simply die. shrug





[Edited 5/12/20 5:55am]

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Reply #24 posted 05/12/20 5:56am

maplenpg

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v10letblues said:

maplenpg said:

Mask wearing is not compulsary over here. Just yesterday, after the scenes on the tube, they started saying people might want to start wearing them in crowded places. But they are not going to enforce it, and TV channels had experts explaining why it's bad to wear a mask (as well as experts saying it's a good thing). BJ said we should 'use our common sense with regards wearing or not wearing masks' - which is meaningless. When you have experts on both sides of the coin arguing over their effectiveness, then how is the common minion supposed to know who to listen to?

Yes, and I personally do not want to go into absolutisms becasue this is uncharted territory. I defer to the experts of course and the believe we should err on the side of caution, but i also believe we should see both ends of opinions play out to whatever common sense they believe is appropriate. I don't have the expertise on this subject as the folks calling the shots in the UK or Switzerland. But we do know that doing nothing and letting economies crash is just not viable, but also imperative that we d not allow to happen. We taking shots in the dark to prevent the worst on many different fronts.
.
I have also said from the beginning that some of what we believed was sound might later be proven wrong and vice versa, but we wont know until the dust settles one day, one way or the other. I just have to believe that people are doing their best with the best of intentions.

.

We will possibly come to know what was the best course of action at this moment in the end, but right now, no one really does.

[Edited 5/12/20 0:41am]

There are things I'm willing to forgive our government for, as mistakes have been made in every country in the world. But there have undoubtedly been calculated decisions that were made knowing that more lives would be lost. In Britain, BJ went against almost all public opinion with his herd immunity plan - telling us we would just have to accept our loved ones might die. Hence our very late lockdown. He knowingly let Cheltenham festival go ahead in March (see pic), and even now, he is knowingly and consciously manipulating the testing figures. He also knowingly sent people back to work with less than 12 hours notice on Sunday night.

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Reply #25 posted 05/12/20 6:07am

DiminutiveRock
er

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maplenpg said:

v10letblues said:

Yes, and I personally do not want to go into absolutisms becasue this is uncharted territory. I defer to the experts of course and the believe we should err on the side of caution, but i also believe we should see both ends of opinions play out to whatever common sense they believe is appropriate. I don't have the expertise on this subject as the folks calling the shots in the UK or Switzerland. But we do know that doing nothing and letting economies crash is just not viable, but also imperative that we d not allow to happen. We taking shots in the dark to prevent the worst on many different fronts.
.
I have also said from the beginning that some of what we believed was sound might later be proven wrong and vice versa, but we wont know until the dust settles one day, one way or the other. I just have to believe that people are doing their best with the best of intentions.

.

We will possibly come to know what was the best course of action at this moment in the end, but right now, no one really does.

[Edited 5/12/20 0:41am]

There are things I'm willing to forgive our government for, as mistakes have been made in every country in the world. But there have undoubtedly been calculated decisions that were made knowing that more lives would be lost. In Britain, BJ went against almost all public opinion with his herd immunity plan - telling us we would just have to accept our loved ones might die. Hence our very late lockdown. He knowingly let Cheltenham festival go ahead in March (see pic), and even now, he is knowingly and consciously manipulating the testing figures. He also knowingly sent people back to work with less than 12 hours notice on Sunday night.


neutral We are at the mercy of our governments. Is the UK preapred to take on the load of cases should infections begin to spike?


If we open too soon and without precautions taken, there wil be "needless suffering and death" says Anthony Fauci of the National Institute of Health.

"if your voice held no power, they wouldn't try to silence you."
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Reply #26 posted 05/12/20 6:30am

poppys

maplenpg said:

poppys said:


Does widespread testing in the US have anything to do with what you tend to think should happen?


We don't even have widespread testing over here yet Poppy. So if Violet is basing her answer on testing, then it doesn't work over the pond.


As far as I can tell, Violet is not basing their opinions on testing, they don't say when asked directly. They probably are aware that there is NOT widespread testing in the US (if they live here). They are are a great proponent of opening up, and wait and see, and all possibilities have equal merit (false equivalency). "We will possibly come to know what was the best course of action at this moment in the end, but right now, no one really does." is rhetoric and sounds political to me.

Death of citizens IS more important than "the economy". Our country WASTES so much money on "nation building" bullcrap, starting unnecessary expensive wars, incarcerating & deporting people etc etc, and THIS is where we cut corners??? NO!

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Reply #27 posted 05/12/20 7:39am

maplenpg

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DiminutiveRocker said:

maplenpg said:

There are things I'm willing to forgive our government for, as mistakes have been made in every country in the world. But there have undoubtedly been calculated decisions that were made knowing that more lives would be lost. In Britain, BJ went against almost all public opinion with his herd immunity plan - telling us we would just have to accept our loved ones might die. Hence our very late lockdown. He knowingly let Cheltenham festival go ahead in March (see pic), and even now, he is knowingly and consciously manipulating the testing figures. He also knowingly sent people back to work with less than 12 hours notice on Sunday night.


neutral We are at the mercy of our governments. Is the UK preapred to take on the load of cases should infections begin to spike?


If we open too soon and without precautions taken, there wil be "needless suffering and death" says Anthony Fauci of the National Institute of Health.

To be fair, the government are talking the talk about not wanting a second spike, and we have hospitals built ready, HOWEVER at the same time we are being told to get back to work (socially distanced) and to go for day trips and hang out in parks. It seems inevitable to me that we'll get a second spike. I truly hope I'm wrong.

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Reply #28 posted 05/12/20 7:42am

maplenpg

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poppys said:

maplenpg said:


We don't even have widespread testing over here yet Poppy. So if Violet is basing her answer on testing, then it doesn't work over the pond.


As far as I can tell, Violet is not basing their opinions on testing, they don't say when asked directly. They probably are aware that there is NOT widespread testing in the US (if they live here). They are are a great proponent of opening up, and wait and see, and all possibilities have equal merit (false equivalency). "We will possibly come to know what was the best course of action at this moment in the end, but right now, no one really does." is rhetoric and sounds political to me.

Death of citizens IS more important than "the economy". Our country WASTES so much money on "nation building" bullcrap, starting unnecessary expensive wars, incarcerating & deporting people etc etc, and THIS is where we cut corners??? NO!

Same over here. We've had cut after cut of our essential services over the past 10 years, and yet now, the things they cut are turning out to be essential, whereas things like the multi billion pound high speed rail (that has not yet even started to be built) is starting to look like it will be tens of billions of pounds wasted - I can't believe they'll continue with it if the economy suffers as much as they say. I understand we can't stay closed forever, but we can't just open the floodgates at an unknown, and possibly catastrophic, cost.

The Org is my playground and y'all are my playmates.
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Reply #29 posted 05/12/20 8:03am

poppys

maplenpg said:

poppys said:


As far as I can tell, Violet is not basing their opinions on testing, they don't say when asked directly. They probably are aware that there is NOT widespread testing in the US (if they live here). They are are a great proponent of opening up, and wait and see, and all possibilities have equal merit (false equivalency). "We will possibly come to know what was the best course of action at this moment in the end, but right now, no one really does." is rhetoric and sounds political to me.

Death of citizens IS more important than "the economy". Our country WASTES so much money on "nation building" bullcrap, starting unnecessary expensive wars, incarcerating & deporting people etc etc, and THIS is where we cut corners??? NO!


Same over here. We've had cut after cut of our essential services over the past 10 years, and yet now, the things they cut are turning out to be essential, whereas things like the multi billion pound high speed rail (that has not yet even started to be built) is starting to look like it will be tens of billions of pounds wasted - I can't believe they'll continue with it if the economy suffers as much as they say. I understand we can't stay closed forever, but we can't just open the floodgates at an unknown, and possibly catastrophic, cost.


nod This is the same rubric that lets "superpowers" call themselves that while more and more children are starving in their country every day - even before Covid. I'm not buying it. Roll out the testing like they should have months ago and stop making excuses.

"if you can't clap on the one, then don't clap at all"
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